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pat ([personal profile] pat) wrote2004-08-30 06:21 pm

Land of the Free?

In a locked post today, a friend of mine wrote about the experiences of immigrants to this country who have suffered losses in the Iraq War. I am quoting part of his post here -- with permission -- because what he said is extremely important:

"But," she says, "what can you do?"

And here's the important part of this whole entry. Pay attention, now. "Because if I say anything, who knows, maybe I'll be disappeared."

And what could I say to that? I know that's not true. You know that's not true. We know that that doesn't happen in the United States.

But here's the thing -- even though it doesn't happen here -- she's worried that it might.
And because of that, she's not willing to protest, or organize, or speak out.

See, it's not enough that the United States merely is a place of freedom to speak. It's got to also look like one.

And it doesn't. And that's fucking scary. Because my co-workers who came to the US to escape repressive South American dictatorships are no longer talking about how much safer they feel here. No, now they're saying things like, "And America is pretty good, still. I doubt we'll get death squads for at least twenty years."

That's a lot different than how they were talking a few years back.

So, that's my point. I don't think that people are going to be smacked down for protesting, or speaking out, not really. I certainly don't think that people are going to be disappeared. No fucking way.

But the fact that someone else DOES think it's a possibility is stifling dissent. The fear doesn't HAVE to be true in order to be damaging freedom and democracy. Even though it's false, it STILL is choking democracy.

And so it's not enough that the United States DOESN'T have death squads, or secret police, or the proverbial "knock on the door in the middle of the night." We have to find a way to SHOW everyone that we don't. To PROVE that it's safe to speak out.

Because, if people don't believe that we don't have death squads even though we don't, then, well, the effect on democracy is nearly as bad as if we actually DID have them.

[identity profile] anotheranon.livejournal.com 2004-08-30 06:39 pm (UTC)(link)
Now, that IS a telling statement about our times, isn't it? :(

Death Squads Lite! Now 50% less threatening.

[identity profile] calebbullen.livejournal.com 2004-08-30 07:29 pm (UTC)(link)
People have been all but disappeared though. They've been hauled off to Guantanamo and are just recently being counted and given some rights. There are people who couldn't contact their families for years. If that isn't being disappeared and doesn't make a person think twice about protesting, I don't know what does.

Now it's true, they haven't yet taken people for the specific reason of protesting But they have taken people without good reason, I'm not sure that's a lot better.

Listening to the Republican Convention tonight, Michael Moore is there but the Secret Service have surrounded him and kept the NPR reporter away from him and they seem to be using the SS to keep the media away from Mr. Moore.

But it does happen here

[identity profile] pdx42.livejournal.com 2004-08-30 08:01 pm (UTC)(link)
In the time since the attacks almost three years ago, hundreds have been disappeared -- gone with no trace. From the stories I've read, they were nearly all Muslims, nearly all men, and nearly all apparent pillars of the community. They're gone. They may be at Guantanamo, but the Feds will neither confirm nor deny. No warrants were issued that anyone can find, nor any charges filed. There may be somewhere between 800 and 2500 people interred at Guantanamo, but no one knows for sure because our government will not release the names nor an official count.

I don't blame your friend for being scared.

[identity profile] curiousangel.livejournal.com 2004-08-30 09:09 pm (UTC)(link)
And so it's not enough that the United States DOESN'T have death squads, or secret police, or the proverbial "knock on the door in the middle of the night." We have to find a way to SHOW everyone that we don't. To PROVE that it's safe to speak out.

Um, I hate to say this, but proving a negative is really REALLY tough to do. Also, it's important for people to speak their minds and stand up for what they think is right -- even if it costs them dearly.

In the words of Patrick Henry, "Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God!"

That is what it means to be an American, folks. You stand up and you say your piece, and you fight in whatever way you can for what you think is right. If all you want is someplace where you can go and not be bothered... well, you won't find it here. Democracy isn't that easy.

Your friend's friend was worried about her own safety, and that's understandable. However, your friend should have told her that her moral obligation meant that she had to overcome those fears and do what she thought was right. He should have reassured her that the thing she feared wasn't going to happen, but that even if the unthinkable actually did happen to her, that she would have known that she did the right thing.

It's not the most comforting thing in the world, certainly. It's still better than looking at yourself in the mirror and knowing that you let your fear triumph over you when you knew what the right thing to do was, though.

(Anonymous) 2004-08-30 09:41 pm (UTC)(link)
It was and is not my place to lecture her about what she should or should not do. She's been dealing with this sort of thing, including in countries where they DID have death squads, for longer than I've been alive. I don't go around lecturing my elders about things that they understand better than I do.

I wouldn't, necessarily, call her a "friend", exactly. She's a co-worker, an acquaintence. I like her well enough, but that doesn't give me the right to tell her what moral obligations she has. She was telling me this because she was upset, and because I listen well. My responsibility as a decent human being was to listen sympathetically, and let her unburden herself, to help deal with what was bothering her, worrying her. And that's all.

I did consider whether I SHOULD say something about how she should speak up, and not be afraid -- but, let's face it, she and I both know that she's a lot more experienced in how police can harrass people than I am. Why should she listen to what I think she should do, when we both know that she knows this stuff better than I do?

And she knows what the right thing to do is. The right thing to do is to protect your family and your close friends. You go places where there are possible opportunities, and you make as much money as you can, and you send it back to your family, and you keep going where there are the best opportunities. That might mean that you bring your family to the United States, that might mean that you go back home with a grubstake that you can use to start a business back in your country of origin, that might mean that you all go to some third location. If the United States stops being a safe place and a land of opportunity, the right thing to do is to go somewhere else. Her responsibility to keep the US safe and a land of opportunity is less than her responsibility to keep herself safe and to keep opportunities for her family and friends.

[identity profile] patgreene.livejournal.com 2004-08-31 12:46 pm (UTC)(link)
Given that the person in question was an immigrant, and given the way that the INS has sometimes gone after people the Administration considered "threats", and considering just how loose this Administration's definition of "threat" has sometimes been, I think her fears are certainly justified. I can well see why she would be hesitant to do anything that would threaten the well being of her family. I'm not sure I would not feel exactly the same way.

Yes, I agree it is important for people to speak out. It's just some of us are in a safer position to do so than others.

[identity profile] tsjafo.livejournal.com 2004-08-31 04:53 am (UTC)(link)
"...Paranoia strikes deepInto your life it will creepIt starts when you're always afraidYou step out of line, the man come and take you away..."
"For What Its Worth" as performed by Buffalo Springfield

[identity profile] halimede.livejournal.com 2004-08-31 02:33 pm (UTC)(link)
And it doesn't. And that's fucking scary. Because my co-workers who came to the US to escape repressive South American dictatorships are no longer talking about how much safer they feel here. No, now they're saying things like, "And America is pretty good, still. I doubt we'll get death squads for at least twenty years."

That's a lot different than how they were talking a few years back.

So, that's my point. I don't think that people are going to be smacked down for protesting, or speaking out, not really. I certainly don't think that people are going to be disappeared. No fucking way.


People have already commented about how bad things really are, and about arrests without accountability and contact opportunities and all that good stuff. But I'd still like to point out that if people who have seen it before are saying these things, it's a good idea to take into account that they *have* seen it before. Maybe it's not just paranoia but also experience and good observational skills.