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I went to a party last night. It was a nice party.... very interesting people, interesting conversations. I liked all the people I met. Overall, I had a good time. However, a topic came up in conversation that gave me pause.
There was some discussion of a site that sells Baby Jesus, Virgin Mary, and Buddha sex toys. People seemed to think that this was the height of hilarity. I don't. Not that I felt it was sacrilegious.... I doubt anyone in that room was a practicing Christian other than me, and I think to really be sacrilegious you have to believe in that which you are mocking.
But it strikes me that mocking people's core spiritual beliefs does not indicate that you are more intelligent, more enlightened, or more sophisticated than those you are mocking -- it is simply cruel, or at best disrespectful. And maybe it's having passed the midway point of my life (I think I was also the *oldest* person in the room) but gratuitous cruelty or rudeness really sets my teeth on edge. And, at its core, it is supremely (and in this case ironically) intolerant.
It is as intolerant for pagans to mock the beliefs of Christians as it is for fundamentalist Christians to tell pagans they are going to hell. (Note: I am talking about belief here, not actions: the fundamentalist agenda for forcing the rest of the world to live by their beliefs is ripe for mockery. But the Christian belief that Jesus Christ is the savior of the world should most definitely not be.)
To tell the truth, this also lies at the source of my discomfort with the Darwin fish. Yes, I believe in evolution. Yes, I think the footed fish are cute. And I certainly understand the urge to respond to the (often Fundamentalist) Christians who use the fish for purposes of being exclusive and holier-than-thou. (I often want to ask them, have you actually read the Gospels? All the way through?) But I also know the origin of the ancient symbol, and why early Christians used the fish to communicate their existence with each other. (It was an acronym: the Greek for fish stood for "Jesus Christ is Lord and Savior". It was a way to say "I am here" to other Christians without getting arrested.) It has history and meaning beyond "hey, you're going to hell and I'm not." (BTW, even though I understand and revere the symbol, I would never slap one on my car -- the fundamentalists have made it hard to be a liberal and be out as a Christian.) I would have as much discomfort with a Star-of-David with a smiley face in it.
And I know someone out there is muttering something about "subverting the dominant paradigm." As far as I am concerned, if the dominant paradigm in this country were truly Christian, rather than secular, capitalist, and power-driven, there would be no homelessness. There would be no children (or adults) living in poverty. We would not have children -- or anyone else -- sitting on death row. We would not have abortions, but that would be because children, whatever their parentage, would be cherished and carrying a child, even if for someone else, would be truly honored and supported. The traditional nuclear family would be just one acceptable relationship structure among many. It would be clearly understood that each of us is a child of God, and that sexual and gender orientation is only one aspect of who we are, and does not change our worth as human beings.
I am most certainly not immune from occasional intolerance and mocking myself -- I have told the occasional Unitarian joke (sorry,![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
rivka) and, quite frankly, Scientology gives me the creeps. But I usually feel ashamed at myself afterward. I am asking that people try to be respectful of other's spiritual journeys -- and not simply for myself, but for everyone who follows Christ, or Mohammad, or Odin, or no one and nothing at all.
I guess what I am asking for is tolerance from those who ask it from me. I respect that all of us have our paths to walk -- I can never presume to tell in what manner the Divine talks to someone else. All I can know is my own story, and my own path. I am not God. But similarly, as I let you walk your path with respect, I ask that you do likewise for me.
I worry that in writing this I risk alienating those of my friends who are pagan or Jewish or atheist or otherwise non-Christian (or even the very few friends who are fundamentalists). (I also worry about being seen as being terminally uncool or having no sense of humor -- but what the hell, I *am* terminally uncool. As far as my sense of humor goes....) I value all my friends and see in them sparks of the Divine. But this is a part of who I am, and for a friendship to have meaning, it has to be founded on authenticity.
There was some discussion of a site that sells Baby Jesus, Virgin Mary, and Buddha sex toys. People seemed to think that this was the height of hilarity. I don't. Not that I felt it was sacrilegious.... I doubt anyone in that room was a practicing Christian other than me, and I think to really be sacrilegious you have to believe in that which you are mocking.
But it strikes me that mocking people's core spiritual beliefs does not indicate that you are more intelligent, more enlightened, or more sophisticated than those you are mocking -- it is simply cruel, or at best disrespectful. And maybe it's having passed the midway point of my life (I think I was also the *oldest* person in the room) but gratuitous cruelty or rudeness really sets my teeth on edge. And, at its core, it is supremely (and in this case ironically) intolerant.
It is as intolerant for pagans to mock the beliefs of Christians as it is for fundamentalist Christians to tell pagans they are going to hell. (Note: I am talking about belief here, not actions: the fundamentalist agenda for forcing the rest of the world to live by their beliefs is ripe for mockery. But the Christian belief that Jesus Christ is the savior of the world should most definitely not be.)
To tell the truth, this also lies at the source of my discomfort with the Darwin fish. Yes, I believe in evolution. Yes, I think the footed fish are cute. And I certainly understand the urge to respond to the (often Fundamentalist) Christians who use the fish for purposes of being exclusive and holier-than-thou. (I often want to ask them, have you actually read the Gospels? All the way through?) But I also know the origin of the ancient symbol, and why early Christians used the fish to communicate their existence with each other. (It was an acronym: the Greek for fish stood for "Jesus Christ is Lord and Savior". It was a way to say "I am here" to other Christians without getting arrested.) It has history and meaning beyond "hey, you're going to hell and I'm not." (BTW, even though I understand and revere the symbol, I would never slap one on my car -- the fundamentalists have made it hard to be a liberal and be out as a Christian.) I would have as much discomfort with a Star-of-David with a smiley face in it.
And I know someone out there is muttering something about "subverting the dominant paradigm." As far as I am concerned, if the dominant paradigm in this country were truly Christian, rather than secular, capitalist, and power-driven, there would be no homelessness. There would be no children (or adults) living in poverty. We would not have children -- or anyone else -- sitting on death row. We would not have abortions, but that would be because children, whatever their parentage, would be cherished and carrying a child, even if for someone else, would be truly honored and supported. The traditional nuclear family would be just one acceptable relationship structure among many. It would be clearly understood that each of us is a child of God, and that sexual and gender orientation is only one aspect of who we are, and does not change our worth as human beings.
I am most certainly not immune from occasional intolerance and mocking myself -- I have told the occasional Unitarian joke (sorry,
rivka) and, quite frankly, Scientology gives me the creeps. But I usually feel ashamed at myself afterward. I am asking that people try to be respectful of other's spiritual journeys -- and not simply for myself, but for everyone who follows Christ, or Mohammad, or Odin, or no one and nothing at all.I guess what I am asking for is tolerance from those who ask it from me. I respect that all of us have our paths to walk -- I can never presume to tell in what manner the Divine talks to someone else. All I can know is my own story, and my own path. I am not God. But similarly, as I let you walk your path with respect, I ask that you do likewise for me.
I worry that in writing this I risk alienating those of my friends who are pagan or Jewish or atheist or otherwise non-Christian (or even the very few friends who are fundamentalists). (I also worry about being seen as being terminally uncool or having no sense of humor -- but what the hell, I *am* terminally uncool. As far as my sense of humor goes....) I value all my friends and see in them sparks of the Divine. But this is a part of who I am, and for a friendship to have meaning, it has to be founded on authenticity.
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From:
no subject
You see I'm an atheist, but also try to respect the religious attitudes of various of my friends. But I also think that Religion can have very negative effects, and trying to stitch all this together and not cause needless offence isn't easy.
I'm happy for anyone to believe what they want. I may well disagree with them, and argue points of reality and theology, but as long as they respect my position and are not dogmatic then we'll get along. Religious impulses can be helpful to people, and arguably can have a role in helping us cope with the grind of day to day life. However, religion can act as a 'trojan horse' that allows much more dangerous processes to occur.
This happens when people use religion as a reason not to think, and give responsibility for themselves and their society over to dogma and those who peddle it. This gives those in positions of religous authority too much power since they are not questioned nearly enough (they are, after all, chanelling the word of god). If these religious authorities are absolute saints, then maybe everything could turn out OK, but such people are so rare, and so rarely in positions of power, that this is a very unstable position. Also, since many religions have the spreading of their creed as a central tenet, those who dissent or don't believe might not do well even under saintly leadership.
Unless leaders of all kinds - political, religions, corporate - can be challenged on the basis of fact and opinion, then mistakes will go unnoticed and problems will not be solved. By allowing the possibility of absolute knowledge, absolute rightness, religion provides a flaw that is too easily exploited.
That is why religion and state must be kept separate, and why any politician who espouses religious doctrine as a justification for policy should be hounded from office.
And it is why I an very suspicious of organised religions. Personal religious impulses are fine, but it should stay personal and stay away from where it isn't wanted.
You can make some similar comparisons to some people's attitudes to science (usually attitudes of non-practicing scientists). This is why I have a Cthulhu Fish on my fridge, not a Darwin Fish :-)