Religion and tolerance and.... sex toys

[pat]

I went to a party last night. It was a nice party.... very interesting people, interesting conversations. I liked all the people I met. Overall, I had a good time. However, a topic came up in conversation that gave me pause.


There was some discussion of a site that sells Baby Jesus, Virgin Mary, and Buddha sex toys. People seemed to think that this was the height of hilarity. I don't. Not that I felt it was sacrilegious.... I doubt anyone in that room was a practicing Christian other than me, and I think to really be sacrilegious you have to believe in that which you are mocking.


But it strikes me that mocking people's core spiritual beliefs does not indicate that you are more intelligent, more enlightened, or more sophisticated than those you are mocking -- it is simply cruel, or at best disrespectful. And maybe it's having passed the midway point of my life (I think I was also the *oldest* person in the room) but gratuitous cruelty or rudeness really sets my teeth on edge. And, at its core, it is supremely (and in this case ironically) intolerant.

It is as intolerant for pagans to mock the beliefs of Christians as it is for fundamentalist Christians to tell pagans they are going to hell. (Note: I am talking about belief here, not actions: the fundamentalist agenda for forcing the rest of the world to live by their beliefs is ripe for mockery. But the Christian belief that Jesus Christ is the savior of the world should most definitely not be.)

To tell the truth, this also lies at the source of my discomfort with the Darwin fish. Yes, I believe in evolution. Yes, I think the footed fish are cute. And I certainly understand the urge to respond to the (often Fundamentalist) Christians who use the fish for purposes of being exclusive and holier-than-thou. (I often want to ask them, have you actually read the Gospels? All the way through?) But I also know the origin of the ancient symbol, and why early Christians used the fish to communicate their existence with each other. (It was an acronym: the Greek for fish stood for "Jesus Christ is Lord and Savior". It was a way to say "I am here" to other Christians without getting arrested.) It has history and meaning beyond "hey, you're going to hell and I'm not." (BTW, even though I understand and revere the symbol, I would never slap one on my car -- the fundamentalists have made it hard to be a liberal and be out as a Christian.) I would have as much discomfort with a Star-of-David with a smiley face in it.

And I know someone out there is muttering something about "subverting the dominant paradigm." As far as I am concerned, if the dominant paradigm in this country were truly Christian, rather than secular, capitalist, and power-driven, there would be no homelessness. There would be no children (or adults) living in poverty. We would not have children -- or anyone else -- sitting on death row. We would not have abortions, but that would be because children, whatever their parentage, would be cherished and carrying a child, even if for someone else, would be truly honored and supported. The traditional nuclear family would be just one acceptable relationship structure among many. It would be clearly understood that each of us is a child of God, and that sexual and gender orientation is only one aspect of who we are, and does not change our worth as human beings.

I am most certainly not immune from occasional intolerance and mocking myself -- I have told the occasional Unitarian joke (sorry, rivka) and, quite frankly, Scientology gives me the creeps. But I usually feel ashamed at myself afterward. I am asking that people try to be respectful of other's spiritual journeys -- and not simply for myself, but for everyone who follows Christ, or Mohammad, or Odin, or no one and nothing at all.

I guess what I am asking for is tolerance from those who ask it from me. I respect that all of us have our paths to walk -- I can never presume to tell in what manner the Divine talks to someone else. All I can know is my own story, and my own path. I am not God. But similarly, as I let you walk your path with respect, I ask that you do likewise for me.


I worry that in writing this I risk alienating those of my friends who are pagan or Jewish or atheist or otherwise non-Christian (or even the very few friends who are fundamentalists). (I also worry about being seen as being terminally uncool or having no sense of humor -- but what the hell, I *am* terminally uncool. As far as my sense of humor goes....) I value all my friends and see in them sparks of the Divine. But this is a part of who I am, and for a friendship to have meaning, it has to be founded on authenticity.

Comments

[patgreene.livejournal.com]

"The Divine" does not speak to me at all. There is no room in my psyche for faith. I don't even see a reason (for myself) to bother looking for any sort of divinity or spirituality - those words are descriptors for concepts that are, in my experience, null data.

Hmm. I've always believed that, unless one were omniscient, atheism was as much a faith statement as any other religion. That said, I probably should have said "how the Divine speaks to you -- or not, as the case may be".

Additionally, you statements about an idealized Christian culture are very hard to swallow; you seem to feel that human nature can be subverted by "sayin' it ain't so". The fact that there are numerous Christian cultures out there in the world (Italy; Spain; most of Scandinavia; many others) would tend to indicate that your conclusions are incorrect.

I think you misunderstand what it is I was trying to say in that paragraph, probably because I was not very clear. First of all, I was trying to make the point that simply because some Christians declare America to be a Christian culture doesn't mean it is so, that so many of the elements of this culture are antithetical to Christ's teachings.

Also you mention specific countries: at least two of those you mention are Roman Catholic countries, allied to a particular sect. My feeling is that the elements that are most distasteful about theocracy in those countries stems from purely human elements unique to the RC church. I know nothing about Scandinavia, so cannot address that. Furthermore, I always find the idea of a Christian state to be strange, as Jesus' teachings were non-statist and decidedly anti-nationalist. (I also believe that Constantine declaring Christianity to be the official religion of the Roman Empire to have been the worst thing to happen to Christian faith in history, because over time the alliance of spiritual and temporal authority created a taste for power and turned the oppressed into the oppressors.)

Lastly, I was not stating that a Christian culture existed in the world. I think the idealized Christian culture that I talk about is about as realizable as Marx's communist utopia: a great idea, but unlikely to ever occur fully because of human nature. Nonetheless, it is a useful exercise because it reminds me of what and how I need to be in the world: that I need to pursue ideals of tolerance, compassion, love of neighbor, and helping those around me. It provides a target, so to speak.

[the-ogre.livejournal.com]

"I've always believed that, unless one were omniscient, atheism was as much a faith statement as any other religion."

I'd like to point out that this is completely off base. It is a common misunderstanding due mostly to "point of view parallax".

The atheist says, "I do not believe in any god(s)". This is a negative statement - it requires no proof, nor any faith. Now, there are shadings - you will occassioanlly find an atheist who will say "no gods exist" - that's a much different proposition. I could go on about why & wherefore in my own case - but it's not really apropo to the discussion (just for reference - I am able to discuss this sort of stuff rationally and calmly with people who haven't an agenda - so feel free should you ever want to).

Thanks for clearing up how you meant the cultural references as well - I understand what you were getting at a lot betternow.

[patgreene.livejournal.com]

Okay, that makes sense. Most of the atheists I've met have been of the "no gods exist" variety. And I am interested in talking about this more, and I don't have an agenda -- not consciously, at least.