How dare you...

[pat]

I am so furious at a poster in dot_cattiness right now I can barely speak.

You're right, you callous, souless, holier-than-thou b*tch, I did not know anyone personally who lost their lives on Columbia. And you're also right, people die every day. That's tragic, I agree.

But this disaster represented more than these seven people. Bus accidents and train accidents happen... they are random acts of fate. Death comes to us all, in one way or another, at some time.

These people *were* different. They choose a difficult and dangerous task -- one which very few people are capable of doing, or even willing to take the risk to do. And they did this not to wage war or for crass commercialism or for their own personal glory, but to further humanity. (Quick... how many of you can name a current astronaut -- other than the seven who died?) And, even more anonymously, working with them were people on the ground (some of whom my husband *does* know) trying to pursue goals beyond themselves and their country. They were reaching for the stars for all of us. And it is not just Americans: I weep for the Israeli astronaut as much for the Americans. And when the Russians lose cosmonauts in space I grieve them, too.

Those who go into space, and those on the ground who make space flight possible, are in so many ways, among the very best and brightest on earth, regardless of nationality. They work the stuff of dreams into amazing reality.

We've been a part of the NASA family for fifteen years, now. I wince when the unmanned missions go awry, because I know the dedication and love put into them. I weep when a shuttle blows apart because I know what it means for those people to have been there.

And I am angry... angry that a nation so quick to eulogize its dead heroes is so slow to fund program improvements that maybe could have made a difference. No one wants to hear about the space program, until there is a failure. No one wants to pay to develop new -- and safer -- generations of vehicles (at a cost roughly equivalent to developing a new toy for the military) but some are more than willing to grandstand after we've lost seven brave souls.

We are not just grieving the death of Rick Husband, Michael Anderson, William McCool, Kalpana Chawla, David Brown, Laurel Clark and Ilan Ramon, we are grieving our dreams and hopes.

Comments

Re:

[calebbullen.livejournal.com]

Essentially I agree with all you said. If I had some connection to NASA, I'd almost certainly feel like you do.

However, I don't really think that anyone is saying that anyone's feelings are illegitimate.

The initial post, however crudely put, was just trying to put things into perspective that in the big picture seven people aren't really much of an addition to the daily tragedy. Which I think that most of us agree on to varying degrees. No one is trying to deny the sadness of saturday morning, we are just saying that it wasn't the sum total of tragedy.

Personally, I don't believe that this nations attachment to celebrities is entirely healthy. I think that a good number of people who are both deeply upset and have not previously given Nasa in general or these astronauts in particular a lot of thought, are a bit hypocritical and melodramatic. To a large degree, we're just going to have to disagree on that point. I was once almost lynched on stage for saying the same sort of things about Chris Farley after he died. (though I was being callous and incendiary then) Although, i hardly think a drug addicted comedian has the same nobility as any one of the Columbia crewmembers; I do think that a portion of the general population's reaction seems to be founded on the same basis of celebrity.

Personally, I get more upset by people who are actually murdered than those who die in the line of duty. I suspect it has something to do with the differing expectations one has when taking on a dangerous job vs. just being there. Also, growing up in Chicago, I've seen so many monsters in uniform that it is sometimes hard to remember that they aren't the majority. At least not anymore. Again though, this is really just a matter of personal taste and neither of us are intrinsically "right" or "wrong" on any objective scale.

I don't think anyone, no matter how crass, is trying to deny anyone their own particular feelings. It seems like that would be impossible to do anyway. But it would appear that many LJers are as intolerant of my opinion as they believe me to be of theirs. Which just seems silly at best. I don't get the sense that you are particularly intolerant but I've seen some suprising sides of other people in the last couple days.

I've really just been trying to diffuse the whole thing because I think a lot of well meaning people are getting angry at each other without good cause. Which doesn't help anything.

Incedentally, your posts on this have been the high water mark for decency. Much of I what I am responding to here are other people's less reasonable approaches to this whole thing. But it seemed more logical to discuss this with someone who actually processes someone else's opinion.

[patgreene.livejournal.com]

The initial post, however crudely put, was just trying to put things into perspective that in the big picture seven people aren't really much of an addition to the daily tragedy. Which I think that most of us agree on to varying degrees. No one is trying to deny the sadness of saturday morning, we are just saying that it wasn't the sum total of tragedy.

I think we will have to agree to disagree about the original post. Now matter how many times I read it, I can't see it as anything other than an attempt to label as hypocrites people who feel deeply about this but who were not directly involved.

Something I think the original poster missed in her assumptions was that many of us know that death and tragedy occurs everyday. We do feel sorrow for what is a condition of the world. Tragedy which is out of the ordinary or unexpected (which for a most people this was) hits us harder. Part of it is that people take pride in the oddest things: the fact that some things go right in the world -- which until yesterday morning described the shuttle program for most people -- gives us hope.

rjmwell has some very interesting thoughts on why people react to tragedies which don't affect them directly. (http://www.livejournal.com/talkread.bml?journal=rmjwell&itemid=127258)

Personally, I don't believe that this nations attachment to celebrities is entirely healthy.

Amen to that. If anyone can explain to me why I should care whether Ben Affleck and Jennifer Lopez get married, I'd be grateful : > Most of the time as a nation we get caught up in glitter and hype, and it is not healthy.

But in my opinion the astronauts were not in the same class as mere celebrities. I think a lot of the shock stems from a sense of a loss of something good and substantive in the world. Something which goes beyond the seven dead astronauts.

Also, in regard to LJ, I don't think that LJers are a representative sample of America. At least, the people I see most are not: they are more likely to follow science and technology issues, and to feel a deeper sense of interest and concern when things go wrong in the world in general. They also tend to talk about what they are feeling... which can seem melodramatic, even when it may not be, necessarily.

Part of it is that really, most of us know so little about the context of people's lives, only the bits and pieces they choose to reveal. For example, it would be entirely possible for someone to be reading my journal for months and *not* know I am married to a NASA scientist. Oh, if they figured out I was married to brian1789 and checked out his journal, they would know, but it is not something I talk about much. It's important to me, but until something like this happens, it tends to reside in the background.

Incedentally, your posts on this have been the high water mark for decency.

Thanks. I appreciate hearing that. I posted this in my journal rather than in dot_cattiness precisely because I was hoping for a less, um, catty discussion.

Re:

[calebbullen.livejournal.com]

It's weird, I'm pretty new to the whole LJ experience and once I find employment will probably spend far less time on it than I am now. heh. But I've noticed a real tendancy for people with like viewpoints to basically get together and agree with one another. I've seen a few threads with people taking a stance more like mine and even dot cattiness'where no one thinks about someone with your point of view. Personally, I don't think a one sided discussion is much of a discussion and tend to only pipe in when multiple viewpoints are hashing things out.

I don't think the Columbia crew were "celebrities" like Ben and Jen. At least they weren't while things were going well. But I do think that the newsmedia in general has made them into celebrities post mortem. This doesn't reflect on NASA but on newsmedia. I really think that a lot of people are reacting to that celebratization far more than they are a loss of hope. I suppose, I'd like to be wrong on that point. And some people have clarified their feelings to a very touching level. Unfortunately, it seems like for every person like you, there are two who would rather take cheap or snarky shots. Which is fine, No one has to explain themselves to me. But a cheap shot does not really indicate empathy.

This whole horrible situation may end up bringing public support back to the space program. Which could be a silver lining for you. I think there's a lot of us who, though not traditionally big NASA supporters, would rather see funding go to that than killing muslims or our comedy of errors missle defense attempts. And certainly we're all thinking about NASA far more now than we were on friday.

Anyway, good luck to you and your husband. It's always interesting to hear a different viewpoint.

[datagoddess.livejournal.com]

But a cheap shot does not really indicate empathy.

You just hit the nail on the head. The original poster in dot_cattiness made a very cheap shot with her choice of words. The follow-up comments weren't that we should all mourn the same, but that those who are mourning should be allowed to without others saying they're wrong. If you read the comments, that is what was being pointed out to her, not that she was wrong by not feeling any loss. But that it's not up to her to decide what's appropriate or not.

This has touched me in that I think the space program is worthwhile, and losing not only 7 lives, but another piece of the dream, saddens me. I will not pretend I mourn for the lost 7 the way their family, friends, and co-workers do. Or the way others who didn't know them are. But I will not say it is wrong of others to mourn the way they do, whether it's going to affect them personally or not.

That's been my point the whole time.