(no subject)

[pat]

I have heard several people on my friends list say something to the effect of "It is impossible for someone to 'hate the sin but love the sinner'."



I saw my friend C at church yesterday. I don't get to see him very often -- he is no longer living in our area.

There are decisions I have made about my personal life that C finds appalling. He has never said so directly -- the closest he has come is to say he was "very concerned" -- but I think I know him well enough to have a pretty good idea of what he thinks of the matter. If pressed, I'm pretty sure he would say, yes, he thinks that I am being sinful.

But when he sees me, he says "I really want to know how your life is going" and means it. He does not spend his time telling me that I am going to hell, or that the struggles I am experiencing in my emotional and spiritual life are a result of these decisions.

I think this is a clear case of "hate the sin, love the sinner."

The problem is that most people who actually say the above phrase, don't really mean it.

Comments

[kiya]

I'd say that there's something more complicated going on than that they don't really mean it, though that's part of my experience of the phrase. I don't know if this will come out right, though; please forgive me if I bollix it up.

The majority of situations in which I have seen "hate the sin, love the sinner" applied have been to actions, beliefs, or other things in which I consider the idea that the action, belief, or whatever is "sin" is . . . at best, laughable. And at worst, it's something that's inherent to how a person is, and the idea that one could hate the person's nature and still love the person really doesn't work for me, or for a number of other people I've seen objecting to it.

[patgreene.livejournal.com]

And at worst, it's something that's inherent to how a person is, and the idea that one could hate the person's nature and still love the person really doesn't work for me, or for a number of other people I've seen objecting to it.

Except, for me, people are not just one thing. A person's nature is made of a great many strands, some more important, some less so.

[kiya]

This seems to me to place your judgement about what about a person is essential to them above that person's own judgement.

For me, nothing is more important to me, more central to my life, or more essential than my family; someone who considers the form my family takes to be evidence of some sort of "sinfulness" but claims to love me nonetheless has missed the entire point of my existence.

I cannot perceive love if the essentials of my existence are dismissed or declared evil; further, I am unable to believe that that love exists. I cannot imagine a love of a thing which can coexist with hating the nature of the thing.

[griffen.livejournal.com]

I think that's more or less what I wanted to say, but I didn't word it as well as you have.

[frankenboob.livejournal.com]

Sounds a bit defensive. I'm sure it's justified. It must be difficult to try to (or even have to) explain your life choices to people who don't understand.

Changing opinions about things is possible... and takes time. I can appreciate the initial steps of separating the person from the actions.