Just want to say thank you for posting these occasional notes about you recent WWoF posts. I don't read the feed, but when you post these little notices, if I have time and something catches my interest, I do click out to read. I've never been sorry to have done so (that's an understatement, by the way).
I couldn't figure out how to reply on blogspot but I don't see much difference between solstice and christmas from your explanation.
They're both about rebirth no? doesn't jesus do for you what getting another year (free of charge) does for a pagan, give you a second chance, a world of new opportunities?
If there's no solstice, then the world is forever plunged in darkness and cold and the makers of sunblock would be bankrupt. If there's no jesus than your soul is forever plunged into darkness and the sunblock makers make a fortune in hell.
The only tangible difference there is that one deals with something that actually happens and we can make of it what we will and the other deals with something that may have happened.
And of course when I say may have happened I mean the birth of an actual guy named Jesus not the supernatural stuff.
I seem to be unable to figure out how to leave my comment on the Christmas/Solstice post over there, so I'm leaving it here instead.
I think that Solstice is more like Christmas than you may realize. Christmas, as you point out, is about the birth of the King-to-Be, and represents a point of hope looking forward to His willing sacrifice. The elements of the Celtic Pagan story are similar, although the timing of the Willing Sacrifice is different. I did a quick google and came up with an informative page: http://irelandsown.net/cernunnos.html On that page, they write:
"Cernunnos, The Horned God, is born at the Winter Solstice, marries the Goddess at Beltane [May 1], and dies at the Summer Solstice or Litha. He alternates with the Goddess of the Moon in ruling over life and death, continuing the cycle of death, rebirth and reincarnation."
From another related page (http://irelandsown.net/darkpowers2.html):
"...he then changes overnight from Holly King to Oak King at Yule [Winter Solstice]. Yule is the second crossover that the Lord makes, moving from Underworld back to the Earth. He descends into the Earth at Lughnasadh [Aug. 1] and spreads his body into the crops, then at Mabon [Fall Equinox] he pours out his blood into the vines. At Samhain [Halloween], he is in his realm of the Underworld, awaiting the Crone who comes to him and receives him back into herself to be born again at Yule when she transforms in the Holy Mother, and he into her newborn son."
In Pagan traditions, there is also a saying "As above, so below," which indicates a resonance between the realm of the gods and the realm of mortal man. This has several applications, but in this case the story of the God is understood not only as a metaphor for the yearly turning of the seasons, but also as a similar sacrifice to that of Jesus, in that the blood of the God is spilled to ensure the well-being of the world and the people in it.
The distinction, as I understand it (I am not truly educated enough to debate theology deeply), is that The Christ was supposed to have made all other sacrifices unnecessary, to have completed the sacrifice "once and for all." The sacrifice of Cernunnos continues on a yearly basis, of course, as long as there are seasons.
There are other Pagan stories that incorporate these same elements, however, and in some of them the life of the King/willing sacrifice is much longer. The Arthurian Cycle is one such story familiar to many in our modern era. IIRC, Marian Zimmer Bradley in The Mists of Avalon recounts one version of this tale in a way that brings for the element of the Willing Sacrifice more clearly than the version with which most of us are more familiar. It's been many years since I read it, however, so my recollection of how that played out is somewhat hazy.
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They're both about rebirth no? doesn't jesus do for you what getting another year (free of charge) does for a pagan, give you a second chance, a world of new opportunities?
If there's no solstice, then the world is forever plunged in darkness and cold and the makers of sunblock would be bankrupt. If there's no jesus than your soul is forever plunged into darkness and the sunblock makers make a fortune in hell.
The only tangible difference there is that one deals with something that actually happens and we can make of it what we will and the other deals with something that may have happened.
And of course when I say may have happened I mean the birth of an actual guy named Jesus not the supernatural stuff.
From:
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I think that Solstice is more like Christmas than you may realize. Christmas, as you point out, is about the birth of the King-to-Be, and represents a point of hope looking forward to His willing sacrifice. The elements of the Celtic Pagan story are similar, although the timing of the Willing Sacrifice is different. I did a quick google and came up with an informative page: http://irelandsown.net/cernunnos.html
On that page, they write:
"Cernunnos, The Horned God, is born at the Winter Solstice, marries the Goddess at Beltane [May 1], and dies at the Summer Solstice or Litha. He alternates with the Goddess of the Moon in ruling over life and death, continuing the cycle of death, rebirth and reincarnation."
From another related page (http://irelandsown.net/darkpowers2.html):
"...he then changes overnight from Holly King to Oak King at Yule [Winter Solstice]. Yule is the second crossover that the Lord makes, moving from Underworld back to the Earth. He descends into the Earth at Lughnasadh [Aug. 1] and spreads his body into the crops, then at Mabon [Fall Equinox] he pours out his blood into the vines. At Samhain [Halloween], he is in his realm of the Underworld, awaiting the Crone who comes to him and receives him back into herself to be born again at Yule when she transforms in the Holy Mother, and he into her newborn son."
In Pagan traditions, there is also a saying "As above, so below," which indicates a resonance between the realm of the gods and the realm of mortal man. This has several applications, but in this case the story of the God is understood not only as a metaphor for the yearly turning of the seasons, but also as a similar sacrifice to that of Jesus, in that the blood of the God is spilled to ensure the well-being of the world and the people in it.
The distinction, as I understand it (I am not truly educated enough to debate theology deeply), is that The Christ was supposed to have made all other sacrifices unnecessary, to have completed the sacrifice "once and for all." The sacrifice of Cernunnos continues on a yearly basis, of course, as long as there are seasons.
There are other Pagan stories that incorporate these same elements, however, and in some of them the life of the King/willing sacrifice is much longer. The Arthurian Cycle is one such story familiar to many in our modern era. IIRC, Marian Zimmer Bradley in The Mists of Avalon recounts one version of this tale in a way that brings for the element of the Willing Sacrifice more clearly than the version with which most of us are more familiar. It's been many years since I read it, however, so my recollection of how that played out is somewhat hazy.
And I love that song, too. :^)